Plura cave pushed

[Fredrik Taule]

EOL in Plura was extended this afternoon.

edited (I was told the way it was written caused some confusion)
Old EOL was at 95m. We turned on time and tied off / ended our line at 108m. Cave is still going.

Total run time 4,5 hours in 5 degree C.
Time at depth 20min average 100-105 meters.

Explored by GUE instructors Gunnar Midtgaard and Fredrik Taule.

Thanks to our dedicated support team !
Helle Midtgaard (setup / deco support / cleanup)
Eirik Kjos (setup / deco support / cleanup)
Eivind Hustad Reite (setup)
Marianne Steinsvik (surface)

[Dawn]

Congrats to the team! I already told Fredrik we want to see a more detailed report in the near future when everyone is well-rested ;)

[Fredrik Taule]

Congrats to the team! I alerady told Fredrik we want to see a more detailed report in the near future when everyone is well-rested ;)

Of course !
First things first. At Big Horn Steak house waiting for a big bloody steak now :D

F.

[wal]

WOW, that was quick. :)

[Ingemar Lundgren]

Congratulations! About time someone did something in there. Looking forward to the report.

[thostr]

EOL in Plura was extended this afternoon.
Tied in at 95 meters. Cave is still going. Turned on time.
Total run time 4,5 hours in 5 degree C.
Time at depth 20min average 100-105 meters.

Explored by GUE instructors Gunnar Midtgaard and Fredrik Taule.

Thanks to our dedicated support team !
Helle Midtgaard (setup / deco support / cleanup)
Eirik Kjos (setup / deco support / cleanup)
Eivind Hustad Reite (setup)
Marianne Steinsvik (surface)

Congratulations to the team!

... and Fredrik, after this feat no complaining on the arctic sea water temperature in North Norway will be accepted from you :)

[Teppo]

Congratulations to the team! hows the wis? I am will arrive there at Sat 12th.

Hope the wis is good enough, I am trying to shoot video at deeper side to the "wolf´s mouth"

Teppo

[Fredrik Taule]

Congratulations to the team! hows the wis? I am will arrive there at Sat 12th.

Hope the wis is good enough, I am trying to shoot video at deeper side to the "wolf´s mouth"

Teppo

It's not all that good on the way into the air chamber. Particles in the water and the walls have lots of silt and stuff that limmits reflection of the light. Still 20-30m viz, but not particularily good for videoing. According to the "locals" this should improve when the cave gets more traffic over the next two weeks. Providing the silt from the walls gets time to move out of fall down.

After the air chamber and once you start going down the deeper section it improves alot. Viz around the "wolf's mouth" should be excellent for videoing.

F.

[Fredrik Taule]

About time someone did something in there.

That was my thought too :)
I hadn't been there before and Gunnar had only dove the outer most part of the cave two years ago. We were originally only planning to spend some days to familiarize our selfs with the cave, try out thermal insulation "strategies", clock how long the transport would take, the logistics of hauling tanks in, look at where the line ended so we could be max prepared for a next trip.
But when we saw wide open cave where the line ended and still had loads of gas on us we just had to tie in and go on :D

Fredrik

[Teppo]

Hi

Can you write up the your dive, since when i was there last year with erik we talked about the logistic and it seemed a bit ruff to do the deep part (EOL)

I will be using stages and gavins to get wolf´s mouth, but could do better for video if we could get more light (there is only 2 of us going there), Erik if you read this, get you butt at week 33 to Plura :D (leaving at 17th back to Finland)

For the vis need to see if it rains and the traffic, last year we had good vis there and it was shame i didnt have mix with me when Erik and Robert did the wolfs mouth (i think it was 90min total time)

Need to move that big rock in air chamber, so one can scooter in airchamber all the way (its PITA to lift gear over it)

Teppo

ps. Any one coming from list to Plura at week 33?


, the logistics of hauling tanks in, look at where the line ended so we could be max prepared for a next trip.
But when we saw wide open cave where the line ended and still had loads of gas on us we just had to tie in and go on :D

Fredrik

[Richard Lundgren]

That was my thought too :)
I hadn't been there before and Gunnar had only dove the outer most part of the cave two years ago. We were originally only planning to spend some days to familiarize our selfs with the cave, try out thermal insulation "strategies", clock how long the transport would take, the logistics of hauling tanks in, look at where the line ended so we could be max prepared for a next trip.
But when we saw wide open cave where the line ended and still had loads of gas on us we just had to tie in and go on :D

Fredrik

No fun in getting all dressed up for nothin´eh :-). Good work all around guys!

[Fredrik Taule]

Hi
Can you write up the your dive, since when i was there last year with erik we talked about the logistic and it seemed a bit ruff to do the deep part (EOL)

I will be using stages and gavins to get wolf´s mouth, but could do better for video if we could get more light (there is only 2 of us going there), Erik if you read this, get you butt at week 33 to Plura :D (leaving at 17th back to Finland)

For the vis need to see if it rains and the traffic, last year we had good vis there and it was shame i didnt have mix with me when Erik and Robert did the wolfs mouth (i think it was 90min total time)

Need to move that big rock in air chamber, so one can scooter in airchamber all the way (its PITA to lift gear over it)

Teppo
ps. Any one coming from list to Plura at week 33?

Have to get back up to get out some tanks we still have in the cave before driving back to Oslo this evening, so very short:

Before the dive we had set the cave up something like this:
2 80cf' / 32% 'safeties' before the rocks in the air chamber. "General purpose" for everyone diving the week.
2 short body Gavins right after the rocks (left the ones we scootered in on before the rocks)
2 80cf's / 100% oxygen + 1 80cf / 100% safety at 6m
2 80cf's / 50% + 1 80cf / 50% safety at 21m
2 80cf's / 32% at 33m for deco/exit (will be 35/25 at 36m 'next time)
2 80cf's / 18/45 at 60m (won't bring this next time. We didn't know that the distance down to the EOL was so short. We could have used the 15/55 stage we used for transport down going back up if we wanted a fourth deco gas. A forth deco gas was not really needed on the dive we did anyways, but since we didn't know how things looked down there it was better to bring too much rather than too little gas.

In addition we had 2 80cf's with 15/55 at 21 meter that we used for transport down to 75m before we switched to a 10/70 stage that we used for the bottom part of the dive. Went in on the stage and did the exit on backgas (2*18 filled to 230-240 bar).

We were finished setting it up the day before we did the push and when we scootered in on the last dive we only had a 32% stage on us that we dropped when we picked up the 15/75 and 10/70 gas at 21m.

With an RB you could plug in the bottom drive botle at 30 meters and loose the 15/55 stage we used to maximize time on the bottom stage.

We put in most of the gass in the deep section tuesday on a dive to 80'ish meters with a total run time 2 hours 40mins. Belive we did deco for something like 20-25 min at 65-70m on that dive.

F.

[Robert]

Congrat on the adding on some more line for those involved!


I will be using stages and gavins to get wolf´s mouth, but could do better for video if we could get more light (there is only 2 of us going there), Erik
Any one coming from list to Plura at week 33?

Hi Teppo,

I'll think we can fix some lights.... :P

I'm a bit short on chargers (breakin in my basement) so cant charge both light stages at once. :(
(Also blew up my mainlight charger in mexico, so must borrow one of the chargers for the videolights (on cam) for that.)
But one videodive a day is usually enough anyway :)

Hopefully I get my cam mounted on my x before leaving. (Leaving the 7.th, staying around 4 weeks).

I still havent edited last years tapes, so this year we should try to edit it and burn some DVDs before leaving Plura :)

I go CC this year, but bring OC for buddies with turtle-fobia :)

Robert

[Teppo]

Luckily i am cameraman also this year so my buddy can scooter the xx battery tubes :p

Well I will have my camera mounted in Gavin and we can scooter to the rock and swim with 32% to the 30 and swich to mix there, there isnt so much video from deep part done yet...:D

Coolness we can edit the tapes at evenings:p

I will remember to edit your turtle from tape if you are using that

I will bring stuff from Ojamo to look and from Florida





Hi Teppo,

I'll think we can fix some lights.... :P

I'm a bit short on chargers (breakin in my basement) so cant charge both light stages at once. :(
(Also blew up my mainlight charger in mexico, so must borrow one of the chargers for the videolights (on cam) for that.)
But one videodive a day is usually enough anyway :)

Hopefully I get my cam mounted on my x before leaving. (Leaving the 7.th, staying around 4 weeks).

I still havent edited last years tapes, so this year we should try to edit it and burn some DVDs before leaving Plura :)

I go CC this year, but bring OC for buddies with turtle-fobia :)

Robert
So who else is coming?

Teppo

[Robert]

I will remember to edit your turtle from tape if you are using that


Hehe, It's a stainless one, so no problems with yellow burnout on your picture :P

I'm looking forward to use CC when shooting in cave... The dropping 'silt' you get after a while when not moving with OC is annoying.
But bouancy is going to be interesting.



I will bring stuff from Ojamo to look and from Florida
So who else is coming?


Looking forward to seeing it.
A lot of people is coming. OleMartin and Erik (the ones I shared tent with) is prob not coming this year.
Eirik is coming for a weekend
Think you meet Tommy and Øyvind, they will bee there (with others).

Robert

[Ingemar Lundgren]

Robert, what closed circuit rebreather are you going to use?

[Robert]

Robert, what closed circuit rebreather are you going to use?
Good old Desp..... err :)... Inspiration rebuilt to ss frame.

Robert

[Hassan Adly]

Right now I am asking myself: Why is an Egyptian living at the Red Sea fighting an urge to pack his gear, fly over to scandinavia and beg to join you guys on the next push into that cave. :D

Congrats Fredrik and team!

Regards,
Hassan

[Deep6]

Once again, congratulations, guys! It needed to be done! :)

[Fredrik Taule]

Right now I am asking myself: Why is an Egyptian living at the Red Sea fighting an urge to pack his gear, fly over to scandinavia and beg to join you guys on the next push into that cave. :D

Congrats Fredrik and team!

Regards,
Hassan

Thanks Hassan.
You're welcome to join any time.

We've had some fun this summer. Been a while since my wallet was as streamlined as it is just now :) but there should be enough time to work and recharge so we can meet up with you in Egypt Jan / Feb for wreck diving.

Fredrik

[Fredrik Taule]

After the air chamber and once you start going down the deeper section it improves alot. Viz around the "wolf's mouth" should be excellent for videoing.

F.

Not so sure if I should have written that.....
It didn't look as nice when we went back in on friday to get the last six tanks and check that we had pulled everything out.
I think we found our self a nice rock in one of the most nasty 'rooms' down there to do our last tie off. The first (short) part of our exit was 0-viz hand on the line, which was an "interesting" experience at depth.
There's also a drop from 80'ish meter down to nitysomething where I guess it's possible, but pretty darn hard to get down without causing silt deposits from the walls to come loose.

I hope it blows out before you or anyone else gets there, and if not I'm terribly sorry that we f'ed up your video opportunity.

Fredrik

[Peter Tuvesson]

ps. Any one coming from list to Plura at week 33?

Yes, a few people from Stockholm/Upsala will arrive at saturday the 12th and leave on the 18th. We visited Plura for a few days last year, some old faces and some new faces will be show up this time.

/P

[Ingemar Lundgren]

Fredrik, congratulations once again. I was diving there in 1998 and we added line from about 55m to 80m depth if i remember correct. We only had short body scooters at the time so we had to swim from the end of the air chamber.

Can you give me some more details of the cave. What happens to the cave at the point we tied in the line at 80m? Did you scooter the whole way? You mentioned you had an average depth of 100-105m and tied in at 90m? Did you do any survey? (we did not). It would be great if you can do a sketch from memory how the tunnel roughly looks like. You can attach pictures to the posts in this forum.

From your description it seems the tunnel gets deeper and after a while it slowly shallows up to 90m where you tied in? How much line did you add roughly? Maybe it leads to another air chamber? Any indication of the tunnel getting smaller? As i remember it was a pretty good size tunnel. I would like to go back there some time and to me it is very interesting to hear how the tunnel goes.

[Fredrik Taule]

jFredrik, congratulations once again. I was diving there in 1998 and we added line from about 55m to 80m depth if i remember correct. We only had short body scooters at the time so we had to swim from the end of the air chamber.

Can you give me some more details of the cave. What happens to the cave at the point we tied in the line at 80m? Did you scooter the whole way? You mentioned you had an average depth of 100-105m and tied in at 90m? Did you do any survey? (we did not). It would be great if you can do a sketch from memory how the tunnel roughly looks like. You can attach pictures to the posts in this forum.

From your description it seems the tunnel gets deeper and after a while it slowly shallows up to 90m where you tied in? How much line did you add roughly? Maybe it leads to another air chamber? Any indication of the tunnel getting smaller? As i remember it was a pretty good size tunnel. I would like to go back there some time and to me it is very interesting to hear how the tunnel goes.

Gunnar made a sketch that seamed pretty correct. I'll scan it and post it here when I get it from him tomorrow. The tunnel is going in towards south - south east and trends towards where Jan Arild put in line the other year.
http://privat.bluezone.no/jan.arild.aaserud/www_docs/images/Pluratotal3d.jpg
(Jan Arild's new line at the right in the map, the deep section of the cave the smallest part. I belive the new part of the cave that Jan Arild dove have been explored to +/- 30 meters. The logistics of entering from that side is pretty challanging. You have to carry all the gear through dry cave for some distance and afaik the beginning of the dive requires sidemount before the cave opens up.)

At 77 meters there is a T with one line going left towards what quite possibly is the other end of the system and it shallows up. When we checked it out on the setup dive last tuesday we were quite enthusiastic both because of the direction and the fact that it went shallow since that would have allowed us to spend more time in there. Unfortunately that line ends in a quite big room (roughly 3-4 meters tall and 5-6 meters wide), just 10-15 meters from the T.

The other line goes down what I belive the yanks would call a 'fisher crack' (Dawn?). It's basically a 1-2 * 2-3 meter wide opening that drops from 80'ish meters down to 93 meters.
edit: This (95m) is where Bjartes old EOL was.
Going further the floor continue down to 98 meters before it levels out for a short distance, then drops down to 103 meters in a circular room that is about 2-3 meters tall and 3-4 meters wide. The cave makes almost a 90 degree left turn at this point and comes back up to 98 meters.
At this point we pointed our scooters into the wrong opening and ended up at 108 meters in the back of a silty room.

After we tied in we were pretty much scootering side by with Gunnar to the left looking for leads towards Jan Arilds line and me to the right with the reel.

Running the dive in the log on my watch the average looks more like 100 and less like 105 where we put in line.

To make things simple for deco purposes we disregarded the transport into the deep section and started calculating average depth and counting bottom time after we had switched to 10/70 at 75 meters. So for that purpose the average was probably 95m give or take.

It would be fun to go back and do 30-45 mins on the bottom. Would be more interesting if we didn't have to fight with time. If the cave goes towards where Jan Arild explored the other year it has to start going shallow sooner or later, so if we're lucky the total run time wouldn't have to be that bad.

Fredrik

[Dawn]

The other line goes down what I belive the yanks would call a 'fisher crack' (Dawn?). Fredrik


Yep, we yanks would call it a fissure crack :)

[Fredrik Taule]

Yep, we yanks would call it a fissure crack :)

Up in Marianna (North west in Florida) earlier this year Ed Sorensen,the guy you get fills, boats and so on from, were mentioning fissure cracks in every second sentence. We just stood there pretty clueless nodding, pretending to understand what he was talking about. After dropping down a fissure crack in Twin cave that he had talked about we figured that had to be what he was referring to as a fissure crack :)

Thanks for telling me how it's spelled too :-)
From a dictionary: "A long narrow opening; a crack or cleft"
Makes sense when it's put that way :-)

F.

[Fredrik Taule]

It would be great if you can do a sketch from memory how the tunnel roughly looks like. You can attach pictures to the posts in this forum.


Attatched the sketch Gunnar made.

From my recollection the cave trends slightly more to the left (S / SE) going from the old EOL at 95m and a bit more distance before the first cube shaped room. The 90 degree turn to the left is also after the last out of the two cube shaped rooms and not the first. Of course Gunnar was looking more at the general picture of the cave than I was since I also were looking for placements to avoid any line traps. So his recollection stands a better chance to be more correct than mine.

The depths are approx 98-100m from the old EOL to where the second cube room starts. This room slopes down to 103m before it goes "uphill" back to 98 meters.
(Gunnar suggested we should call that part for 'Midtgaard bakken' (bakke = hill), but when I jokingly asked if he really wanted his name on something that ended up that shallow he changed his mind and suggested we should call it 'hypoxic hill' instead :) ).
From the last right turn it drops to 108m where the current EOL is. To get a correct scale on the sketch I belive the line after the right turn should be slightly longer, because it didn't drop right down, but at an decent swimable angle.

With the different recollection we have it seams like it was a good thing that we had line to follow on the exit :D Would be nice to go in with 10/90 bottom gas next time.

Fredrik

[2my]

Jan Arild's new line at the right in the map, the deep section of the cave the smallest part. I belive the new part of the cave that Jan Arild dove have been explored to +/- 30 meters. The logistics of entering from that side is pretty challanging. You have to carry all the gear through dry cave for some distance and afaik the beginning of the dive requires sidemount before the cave opens up.
Fredrik

Just as information. Steinugleflåget wich Bjarte and Jan Arild have been diving in 2004 and 2005 was first explored by NTD (Norsk Teknisk Dykkerkrets) in -93 and -96. The deepest dive there and EOL (if there is anything left of it) was tied at 62 meters by Mage Overein. The dive was done with 4*15 litres with Trimix carried as indipendant bottles.
When we where down in Steinugleflåget the first time in -04, the old lines from -93 and -96 still where tied in the waterpool inside the dry cave.

2my

[Fredrik Taule]

Just as information. Steinugleflåget wich Bjarte and Jan Arild have been diving in 2004 and 2005 was first explored by NTD (Norsk Teknisk Dykkerkrets) in -93 and -96. The deepest dive there and EOL (if there is anything left of it) was tied at 62 meters by Mage Overein. The dive was done with 4*15 litres with Trimix carried as indipendant bottles.
When we where down in Steinugleflåget the first time in -04, the old lines from -93 and -96 still where tied in the waterpool inside the dry cave.

2my

Even better :)
If it connects somewhere, it would be nice if the connection could be made deep enough to avoid having to carry extra tanks for decompressing. 62 meters would be good.
What size is the cave at the end of that side ?
Was it still going ?

Fredrik

[Rob_M]

Congrads Fredrik, Gunner and team. Very nice dive. Hope to see you in Florida again soon.:D

[Fredrik Taule]

Congrads Fredrik, Gunner and team. Very nice dive. Hope to see you in Florida again soon.:D

Maby November, but I doubt it.
Do you still have that car ?
Let me know when you're selling it, I'm first in line :D

F.

[Rob_M]

Maby November, but I doubt it.
Do you still have that car ?
Let me know when you're selling it, I'm first in line :D

F.
I still have the old truck, although it is now retired from dive service. It is just sitting at home and driven lightly.

[2my]

Even better :)
If it connects somewhere, it would be nice if the connection could be made deep enough to avoid having to carry extra tanks for decompressing. 62 meters would be good.
What size is the cave at the end of that side ?
Was it still going ?

Fredrik

According to the written NTD repport from -96 the cave continiues down at 62m but they had to turn on time. The repport also tells about one restriction betwen 52 and 62m but remember they used "old-style" equipment with 4*15 backmounted and 2*10 stages, one on each side so probably there is plenty of space.

[Fredrik Taule]

http://fue.no/fue_mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=58&Itemid=48

The article was put together in a hurry in order to answer some of the many questions we're getting from divers and media about risk assesment in particular.
While we are aware that some may see the timing as offencive we felt there was a compelling need to provide divers and the general public with a better insight in how we assess and work to manage risks in order to be able to execute dives like this in a safe manner.
To the extent that it offends anyone in any way, shape or form we genuinly appologize.

Following dramatic "front page" kind of incidents there's also the question of how the authoroties and general public view divers in general and cave divers in particular. When we made the decision to communicate with the media instead of the standard no comment phrase we hoped that our contribution would help towards getting a more nuanced coverage. Except for one paper article before the weekend and a bit too much hype around the recovery we feel that the coverage up until now have been suprisingly sober and accurate.
(Just to make sure that I'm not misunderstood; we don't take or want any credit for that. I'm just stating what our thoughts have been and how we have experienced the coverage)

The essence of our article is summed up on the first page:
"While this form of cave diving is often referred to as an "extreme sport", it doesn't really have to be all that extreme. Or at least, caves are a static environment where most, if not all, of the risks are known. This means they can be managed and reduced, though not completely eliminated".

In our view the recreational activity cave diving should not be a scene for daredevils or a place where individuals should need to accept unjustifiable amounts of risk.

Fredrik