Short report from LIDS and the future of rebreathers

[Fredrik Isakson]

When i first arrived, I thought the dive show was going to be enormous since the The Excel, where the show took place was extremely big. It turned out to be much smaller since LIDS only occupied one of the halls in Excel. The fair is mostly arranged around tropical diving. Most of the exhibitors displayed different trip suggestions for tropical diving. The exhibitors who sold stuff mainly sold stuff you would use in diving situations different to the ones we have in Sweden.
I found one exhibitor who sold Halcyon stuff. I was really hidden away so you really had to look for it. Since I lack a good primary light and need one I was kind of disappointed to se so little equipment functional for diving situations like those we have in Sweden.
On the other hand you could find good prices the second day, if you could find anything you really wanted, that said, I didn’t buy anything.
On the other hand the talks where great. You could listen to a lot of interesting stories from exciting dives and interesting divers.
To me, as a diver from Sweden, it’s interesting how far diving with rebreathers have come in Britain and in advanced diving (read deep diving). I have started to wonder how the future will look?
Will OC disappear in more advanced diving? I know GUE thinks otherwise but when you look on how things develop, I am wondering if closed rebreathers are not here to stay. My feeling after LIDS is that even hard core OC pro speekers ( like Richie Kohler) are turning to closed rebreathers. How will that change our way at looking at tech diving?
For shallower tech dives OC will rule for a long time and for us beginners OC will be enough.
At LIDS you could listen to Leigh Bishop, Teresa Telus, John Chatterton and Richie Kohler, Jean Michel Costeau and many more. Another example was our own Rickard Lundgren who did an exciting presentation around Baltic diving. That will probably produce a couple of new guests to the Baltics, of that I’m sure.

[Richard Lundgren]

I have started to wonder how the future will look?
Will OC disappear in more advanced diving? I know GUE thinks otherwise but when you look on how things develop, I am wondering if closed rebreathers are not here to stay. My feeling after LIDS is that even hard core OC pro speakers ( like Richie Kohler) are turning to closed rebreathers. How will that change our way at looking at tech diving?

Yes Fredrik, in some part of the world CCR diving are booming. Still OC is the most common practice. Some think that the RB is a tool to make the job done easier or more effortless - this is simply not true. Some are simply not experienced or skilled enough to do the dive on OC and choose to go CCR. Some have the skill and experience to use CCRs successfully. The user experience spectrum is indeed wide.

In many areas CCR diving have lately had a tremendous set back due to some rather tragic accidents/deaths. Many of these have involved extremely experienced divers and CCR instructors. The no 1 cause have been Hypoxia (not lack of oxygen). During last year I know about at least 10 fatalities all involving experienced divers. This is a global problem and last year accidents occurred in Australia, Egypt, Sweden, Norway, UK and USA. There is hard to find a database to independently evaluate the statistics.

On the other hand some experienced divers have done some hard core dives using these units. I'm still not sure or convinced that CCR will take over technical diving. CCR use will either grow or we might find that new legislations makes production uneconomical. I understand how tempting the idea of CCR might seam but personally I have been in the water far to many times to start cutting corners.

GUE will not jump the gun and go CCR until we truly believe that the CCR systems are as user friendly, safe and redundant as OC. The reason is simple - Right now these systems are not safe enough in our perspective hence not a good tool for divers who would love to do the dives over and over again.

My personal reflections
Richard Lundgren

[Fredrik Isakson]

yes, what you say is true, itīs not safe and for sure, nothing for me(to expensive and unsafe) but it seems to pick up speed. There seems to be a lot of people out there that are willing to cut the corners and take the risk. Donīt you agree? The reasons may be different but CCR is picking up momentum so, how can we adress the issue? I donīt think that people will stop turning to CCR just by arguments pointing to the ones that die. Itīs som much simpler to just make the transition than to listen to the ones who tells you to be careful. Iīve seen it before. People donīt always chose whatīs best for them. Many times they chose what is easy.

[Richard Lundgren]

yes, what you say is true, itīs not safe and for sure, nothing for me(to expensive and unsafe) but it seems to pick up speed. There seems to be a lot of people out there that are willing to cut the corners and take the risk. Donīt you agree? The reasons may be different but CCR is picking up momentum so, how can we adress the issue? I donīt think that people will stop turning to CCR just by arguments pointing to the ones that die. Itīs som much simpler to just make the transition than to listen to the ones who tells you to be careful. Iīve seen it before. People donīt always chose whatīs best for them. Many times they chose what is easy.

True, remember that I don't throw all CCR systems or their users under the buss per definition. I think that only the future will tell how successful these systems will prove to be. Diving is a trendy sport/activity and we all are affected by these trends.

Take care
Richard Lundgren

[Derk]

True, remember that I don't throw all CCR systems or their users under the buss per definition. I think that only the future will tell how successful these systems will prove to be. Diving is a trendy sport/activity and we all are affected by these trends.

Take care
Richard Lundgren

Richard,

thank you very much for your elaboration on CCR, would you pick out a certain brand/and or system (ECCR vs. MCCR) to be considered particularly in danger of helping people cutting corners?
And, as a second question, here in germany, the pSCR-type clones of the RB80 are vastly growing, resulting in two fatalities in the last years. I figure one might think this seems to be trendy as well and help people cutting corners?

Best,
Derk

[Richard Lundgren]

Richard,

thank you very much for your elaboration on CCR, would you pick out a certain brand/and or system (ECCR vs. MCCR) to be considered particularly in danger of helping people cutting corners?
And, as a second question, here in germany, the pSCR-type clones of the RB80 are vastly growing, resulting in two fatalities in the last years. I figure one might think this seems to be trendy as well and help people cutting corners?

Best,
Derk

There is really no need to pick out specific systems, the same is true for all even pSCR-type if not put in the hands of the right user (what is the right user?). Same for OC but less complexed.

Take care,
Richard Lundgren

[Liam Allen]

yes, what you say is true, itīs not safe and for sure, nothing for me(to expensive and unsafe) but it seems to pick up speed. There seems to be a lot of people out there that are willing to cut the corners and take the risk. Donīt you agree? The reasons may be different but CCR is picking up momentum so, how can we adress the issue? I donīt think that people will stop turning to CCR just by arguments pointing to the ones that die. Itīs som much simpler to just make the transition than to listen to the ones who tells you to be careful. Iīve seen it before. People donīt always chose whatīs best for them. Many times they chose what is easy.
Hey Fredrik perhaps people were turning to CCR in the past because there was no ideal solution to OC for this style of diving. The many different options and configurations may have made CCR seem as risky as OC. Now that there is an efficent team orrientated and safe way to conduct these dives more people are reconsidering their options. Here in Sydney we are seeing a growning nunmber of GUE trained divers taking to the water on a weekly basis. this is something we didn't have 2-3 years ago, however not eveyone is going to dive OC, CCR will remain appealing and an option to some.

Regards
Liam

[Fredrik Isakson]

Hey Fredrik perhaps people were turning to CCR in the past because there was no ideal solution to OC for this style of diving. The many different options and configurations may have made CCR seem as risky as OC. Now that there is an efficent team orrientated and safe way to conduct these dives more people are reconsidering their options. Here in Sydney we are seeing a growning nunmber of GUE trained divers taking to the water on a weekly basis. this is something we didn't have 2-3 years ago, however not eveyone is going to dive OC, CCR will remain appealing and an option to some.

Regards
Liam
Intersting, and maybe true. Thats an angle i havenīt heard before. Could be! But in a global perspective isnīt tech diving in general and the type of controlled and correct form of oc-diving you describe a minor part of the diving community? At least so far?

[Liam Allen]

Intersting, and maybe true. Thats an angle i havenīt heard before. Could be! But in a global perspective isnīt tech diving in general and the type of controlled and correct form of oc-diving you describe a minor part of the diving community? At least so far?

Yes it is a minor part of the tech community, so far, but people are realising the benifits of such an approach not only to tech diving but also to recreational diving.
Regards
Liam

[Fredrik Isakson]

I agree!
And

[Fredrik Isakson]

where about to wright...and hope that not to many will miss that opportunity

[Ahmed Adly]

I think that there will always be people who will buy CCRs, maual or electronic. Just as there are people who smoke and choose to continue smoking or elect presidents like George Bush and so on and so on.

Everyone has their reasons and they are obviously convinced about eCCR if they buy one.

I have yet to find their true benifit at the end of the saftey equation.
That said, I also suspect the dive community will slowly find this out for themselves and therefore RB companies will find it less and less profitable to build them. But by then, the small timers out there now, will have made a killing, and I mean "killing" in all senses of the word.

Ahmed

[TJO]

Everyone has their reasons and they are obviously convinced about eCCR if they buy one.

Ahmed

A few here in Japan actually move away from eCCR back to OC. There have been several casualties and incidents already in a very small community. The incident rate (fatality, serious accident) per diver is probably in double digits here! Perhaps they, and others, were not that informed or convinced when they started eCCR. Just like less informed new divers (most of us, including me!) bought split fins, consoles and ankle weights... I am not sure the eCCR guys are that informed. I took the course many years ago but decided eCCR was not for me. What is really scary is that there have been several reports recently involving very experienced eCCR divers and even instructors.

Thomas

[Ahmed Adly]

A few here in Japan actually move away from eCCR back to OC. There have been several casualties and incidents already in a very small community. The incident rate (fatality, serious accident) per diver is probably in double digits here! Perhaps they, and others, were not that informed or convinced when they started eCCR. Just like less informed new divers (most of us, including me!) bought split fins, consoles and ankle weights... I am not sure the eCCR guys are that informed. I took the course many years ago but decided eCCR was not for me. What is really scary is that there have been several reports recently involving very experienced eCCR divers and even instructors.

Thomas

I am real happy to hear that there is so much diving going on in Japan! I never thought so.

Back to the subject though. You have a more qualified opinion than me since you did a course on eCCR. We both have the same opinion though.
I wanted more than anything to become an Inspiration instructor a long time ago. The main reason I didn't was I couldn't find a person to teach me. Later it became clear that it was not for me.

I still wish I did the course though, then I would have a more educated approach when telling people my opinions.

Ahmed

[Graham Mills]

having looked into CCR quiet seriously this would be a large jump for me i have good friends who work for SKY TV underwater camera etc. So i spent alot of time looking into the casualty's what went wrong etc, as better divers than me have died through this system, i have also looked at the incident report for such cases and the majority of the deaths were caused by the O2 cells some were 6 years old!!

Having asked what does he do different he said nothing, But he changes the O2 cells every 12 months and service every 12 months also instead of the obligatory 50 hours of the max depth 40 MSW he has done 100 before moving on. this i feel would be a more conservative way to proceed, and after six months of talks and discussions i have ordered my CCR.

however i shall still be diving OC as i have some very good dives planned next year in the 75-80MSW range, I'll let you know how i get on with this new kit, because diving both i will be able to see the differences immediately,

dive safe

graham

[Graham Mills]

Just an after thought but as CCR is in it's infancy, if you were to compare the statistics with OC at the same time period would they differ much?

[TJO]

I thought rebreathers were older than OC.. but not as widely used of course.

There are data from Japan indicating one serious incident per 20,000 recreational dives if I remember correctly. I do not know of any data showing incident per diver so it is difficult to compare. But I would be surprised if OC even comes close to that whether you look on the whole population or any subgroup like tech diving.

Diving here is great! Especially wintertime when few dives at all. It is hard to imagine there are soft corals and hammerhead sharks close to Tokyo.

Thomas